Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to AllView360 all things real Estate Podcast. With your hosts Daniel Gutierrez and Shannon Dempsey, we explore real estate from every angle, giving you insights, tools, and confidence to make smart decisions that support your future. It's time for a new perspective on Property. Welcome to AllView360. Hello, everybody. We're so excited to be back. This is Shannon Dempsey and Daniel Gutierrez. And today we're going to talk about starting from scratch in 2025 from a rookie investor and a rookie agent perspective. So kind of overall real estate.
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah, everything real estate.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Everything real estate. We've been doing this for decades.
Decades together combined. Decades. A decade and a half.
But what would we do differently if we were starting with all of this today in 2025? So it looks a lot different than it did in 2010.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: Yeah. So I want to throw a curveball that I promise I want to do. Let's. Let's put a point in reference of when we actually started where we're coming from.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Oh, when we started. So I started really focused in real estate in 2012.
[00:01:03] Speaker B: I started it as an investor in 2011.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: 2011.
Yeah.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: And then, so it was right after the crash, I was able to get in and buy some really distressed properties starting in Las Vegas. That's a whole different story. But you.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I feel like we can do a whole episode on that.
[00:01:21] Speaker B: Yeah. You were coming in kind of what things started to somewhat stabilize and pick back up 2012.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: I remember exactly where I was. And you called and said, I want to buy another place. I said, cool, let's go.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: And I was right here, too. Yeah. That's cool.
So over how many years is that? 13 years.
It's changed a lot.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: Yeah, it's mass changed a lot. And it's still also kind of the same.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: I was going to say, but we just keep going. Yeah. Okay. So we kind of narrowed down some talking points, and they both are relevant if you're an agent or if you're.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: An investor really doing anything within real estate.
[00:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah, it's all the same and different. So the first one is timing of the market versus timing in the market. How do you feel about that?
[00:02:07] Speaker B: I always tell people, I don't have a crystal ball. No one has a crystal ball.
You can't predict what's happening. And it really depends on what your investment thesis is, what your holding period is. Is it short term? Fixed flick? Is it long term?
And the fundamentals all have to be right, regardless of what that looks like. So knowing and being true to yourself, that you don't know what's going to happen. And no one has a crystal ball. You have to stick the fundamentals, know the potential options and where you're going to be okay and where you're going to be in trouble.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Where do you draw the line with timing the market?
[00:02:42] Speaker B: I don't try to time the market time and time again. I've seen clients come back and say, man, I should have done this deal, but at the time they thought they were too expensive. I've done the same thing. Or where I say, you know, I think I'm selling at the right time. And then I come back and look like, wow, I left a lot of money on the table. Las Vegas, I sold, I think, before the.
The wave of investment came from the nice, from the raiders, from all of that. I'm personally okay with it because it was kind of a nightmare situation, managing from afar, finding manager, finding vendors, and Vegas just wasn't the place for me after many years.
But there's. There is no such thing as timing the market.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: In the last 18 months, there's been a lot of different versions of really guessing, but educated guesses on what the market's going to do and then it doesn't do it.
[00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, also too, I think these last specifically six months, no one knows what's going to happen between the administration, changes in the US Government, geopolitical issues across the world. The Fed, no one has any idea. If there's any indication about looking at the stock market, people with billions and trillions of dollars, they have no idea what's happening.
[00:03:55] Speaker A: No, no one has any idea. So what I've been focusing on in 2025, specifically, a lot of my client conversations look more like what is going to make sense for you.
So here, a lot of net sheets, here's what you're going to net. Here's how much I think you could sell your house for. It's less than what you could have sold it for, honestly, at the beginning of last year, but not much. It's still stable.
And you're going to net this amount. Does that work for you with what you want to accomplish next? Yes. Okay, cool. Then you make the decision to sell. If it doesn't, then the advice is not to. We continue to rent or we figure it out. The other component is on the buy side. This is what your monthly payment is going to look like with the rate. Are you comfortable with that? Yes. Okay, then let's buy and then we'll figure it out afterwards. So now more than ever, it's timing the right now and what comfortable for the client. And then you go from there.
[00:04:46] Speaker B: Not knowing the future is a big component of the reality. It's. And that's the kind of a convoluted statement. But the people who are saying, okay, I'm going to buy now, rates are going to drop in six months and then I'll be able to afford it. That is a very dangerous game.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: And I never, I heard it over and over. We all did like buy the house or marry the house, date the rate.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Never set that.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: It's market.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: It made me want to fall over every single time. And imagine if I was saying that and convincing clients just, just suck it up now and you'll. And I have actually a seller now that bought in July, that I was a listing agent. She was the buyer. Yeah, she bought in July. She's in renewable energy. She lost her job. She's now in an industry where her boss, his boss are all fighting for the same position. Right. She's not going to get a good job. And she did that. She bought the house or married the house, dated the rate, the rate has gone up. She lost her job. Here we are, like, this is kind of the situation you're. You're in. We went over the net sheet, we looked at rentals, all of that. We just figured out a plan that made sense for her and her family. And it does make sense to sell and rent. And that's what they're doing right now. And. And that's just what works well.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Feedback. I think that's what differentiates you from other agents. You truly are fiduciary in the best interest of your clients. And.
But there's also the factor, like life happens and things change.
People can be in a good situation and be able to afford a home, but things change and you need to make decisions to accommodate. Like, you and I grew up in Temecula.
Luckily we're in college during the crash. But I was oblivious.
[00:06:20] Speaker A: You were oblivious? I was oblivious.
I was living my life. And then I got out of college. Like, what happened?
[00:06:26] Speaker B: Yeah, I was at University of Oregon of Temecula. And I'll come back and visit occasionally. I remember one year, it was like 2008, like spring break or summer. I came back and I'm like, why is everyone's home for sale? Why did everyone lose their trucks, their RVs, their boats, their ATVs?
[00:06:42] Speaker A: I mean, my mom was an agent, so I. She was killing it. And then, you know, like, I saw that transition from what it looked like to be selling real estate during the boom and then what it looked like to be selling real estate after. Or not. Yeah, she constantly brings up chasing the market. But we're in this unique smaller pocket of people that graduated high school during the boom and then graduated college during the recession.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: And so we saw. Yeah, we just kind of entered adulthood thinking it was one way and then really entered adulthood with it being another way.
So maybe our threshold's higher for this sorting market, or it should be.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: I spent a lot of my academic career researching those plumes and busts from the beginning of time till now. But you've been looking at the investment side, whether it's a single family home or a large multifamily industrial commercial property.
You're looking at the cap rates is one of the things that all of us look at when looking at investment. But if your cap rates are 5% and your interest rates are 7%, you're at negative leverage. And on a commercial loan, a lot of banks will even low to you or you're going to have to be putting in money every year to meet their ratios. And that's just not a good investment.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: Do you remember when we were 20 and you were like, you need to know how to calculate a cap rate. And I was like, cool, what's the cap rate? And you had to explain to me what a cap rate was. You taught me how to calculate it and I went into real estate super young, doing that for people. So thank you for that.
I think all of this to say that what we. The way that we've approached real estate and the way that we're kind of unfazed by all of this is that it is a long game.
I think that's one of the big lessons and something that maybe if you're entering the market today, you don't realize how much of a long game it is. Like we've done nothing but grow all of it personally, business wise, it's just continued to grow no matter what the market is doing. Because it is a long game. It's not a good rich, quick scheme. It's not anything like that.
[00:08:32] Speaker B: A question adopters ask themselves. It's a really good litmus test. Every day you're deciding not to sell a property, you're deciding to that it's worth what. It's what the value is now and therefore you're deciding to buy it again at that rate. It's not that easy because there's a lot of complications. There are a lot of other factors that go into it, such as transaction costs, opportunity costs, what else would you do with that? Taxes, capital gains. But in short, every day you hold onto a property, you decide that it's still more valuable to you in your portfolio than selling and being added to the portfolio.
[00:09:02] Speaker A: And there are the outliers, especially during the crash, where people were able to get out of their house at a high number and then buy it back at a lower number. But those deaths, that's an outlier. That's not, you know, that's why you.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Could never tie the market.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: No, but I do feel like people try to. Are they waiting for that? Are they swear it's just not going to happen?
[00:09:18] Speaker B: In 2018, we had a lot of clients coming to us to sell their homes and then rent outside because they were thinking that was the next crash. And we had so many clients who sold, ended up renting with us.
And you know what? Five and six years later, there's still.
[00:09:37] Speaker A: Tenants in the houses that we're in.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: And still tenants in the house in.
[00:09:40] Speaker A: Our property, which isn't bad. California is crazy.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: No, they can't afford what they even sold six years ago.
[00:09:45] Speaker A: Agreed, agreed, agreed.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: Yeah. So you can't time the market.
[00:09:47] Speaker A: No, but it is a long game. Hold on to your investments, make it all happen.
[00:09:51] Speaker B: And the, the dynamic there of buying for cash flow versus buying for appreciation, that's more on the investor side, but on the owner occupier is buying for.
For your use and that and the appreciation. And luckily in California we have significant appreciation, which it is questionable whether how sustainable it is. But we're what, 10 year over year for the last.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: Yeah, well, even in this market, my client that bought in July and now is listing there is still enough gain there for her to cover costs to sell. Like they're going to break even. Yeah, even in from what's happened to July to now, which is kind of.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Crazy in transaction cost. True. Transaction costs are real estate or astronomical. So you think 5 to 6% for agent commission, escrow title, all of the other ancillary services you have to do or pay for during a transaction. And that's on the simple side. You talk about counties like LA that have the management tax, you're tacking on another 4 to 6% on top of whatever it is.
Exactly. So now just to break even, you're talking appreciating 5 to 7% just to break you before you purchase.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: What are you. So as far as cash flow versus appreciation, we're Ricky's. It's 2025. Where are you Even finding cash flow.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: Right now you're not finding cash anywhere. So you're not finding cash flow unless you're putting a massive amount down.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: So then why are you investing in real estate in 2025 without any cash flow? Is it solely appreciation? Who, who's choosing to.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: So you can, you can invest with appreciation, but you have to re. Have a really strong belief that that property will appreciate and that you will be able to survive without having the cash flow also too. Like you can't time the market. So where you think that gentrification story might help and that or that neighborhood is really getting, you know, up and coming and it's going to increase higher than the rest of the market, you could be okay. But if that doesn't happen, you're in trouble. And then if you're not cash flowing, you're tight on cash and you have some major expenses now, you're in trouble. And that's when no one wants to be in trouble. And that's when you start getting proposed on.
[00:11:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:58] Speaker B: Or look at all the, especially right on the commercial side, all the office investors who have these massive office towers who are letting it go just to get out of the debt because there's no possibility that they'll be able to generate enough cash flow with their office assets to cover even their debt service.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: Yeah. I have a client right now super jealous of him and his wife. They have put themselves in a position kind of in retirement to be hard money lenders.
[00:12:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:25] Speaker A: Which is what they are. They're going completely liquid. It's the choice that they're making. They are renting a super amazing property on the interest that they're going to earn from the money just from going liquid. And then they're going to sit and wait and they're in a position to be able to do that.
Not everyone's in a position to be able to do that. But I do think that that's kind of a different approach in the market right now and a smart one. And he sees this day in and day out and it's something he's excited about. Yeah.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Well, that's a very unique and I think creative way is still being able to benefit from the real estate industry without necessarily having to actively participate in it.
[00:12:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's, it's, yeah, it's just kind of. He's not a rookie investor.
[00:13:03] Speaker B: Yeah. But even those who are sophisticated long term investors, you know, the market still catches up. There's been plenty of people to make fortunes and lose fortunes and when you gamble I mean we have clients all the time that they'll come to us and say, hey, I have this asset. What do you guys could do? And we look at the numbers and we're like, best case scenario, you know, you're going to be putting in a few thousand dollars a year. Just keep it low. And at that point it's like, do you sell? Do you. Hold on. There was a saying for many years as like survive till 25. And that's what the, when was that estate, the commercial. That's what the commercial industry was saying was survival. 25, interest rates are high, cap rates were low. Nothing was making sense. Everyone thought at even smart money this year by now we would have had two, two interest rate drops. That's not happening.
[00:13:50] Speaker A: It's not looking survive till 25, then die.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: No, it's a survive to 25 and things were going to get better. And we're stop worrying about that. Like, I was in a room with the CEO of one of the biggest REITs in the country and he was saying that they on their balance sheet, they had to write off like $3 billion worth of value for their assets because the where cap rates were, interest rates were. And the value of assets dropped so much that they literally wrote off $3 billion off their balance sheet.
And because of that, now banks were going back to them and saying, hey, this isn't worth what it once was. Have a debt service ratio. You have a debt coverage ratio. You need to put in money to beat your ratios or the bone will be called.
Cool. Yeah, I know it's scary.
[00:14:30] Speaker A: It's scary it all. It's all very scary. Yeah, but we're rookies, so we're happy.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Okay, well, so with all the stupid gloom, like what, what would we do? Like, well, another issue that we were talking about is that analysis process. So everything we're talking about is having so much going on that you never make it to something decision.
[00:14:49] Speaker A: And there's. You are a happy medium. Medium of analysis paralysis. I think sometimes you have that but you're also quick to make decisions too when it. I guess. So maybe that's not paralysis by analysis. No, I'm more impulsive. Like, let's just do it and see. Let's see what works. That's failed me sometimes, but it's worked out other times.
[00:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I wouldn't say you're impulsive. You're calculated.
[00:15:11] Speaker A: Calculate quickly. Calculated. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think a lot of. Like when I hear analysis paralysis is expensive in real estate, what I'm hearing is you held off on making a decision that was probably good for you because you were scared. And now here we are still just evaluating everything, overthinking everything. While that decision you didn't make is appreciating, is making money for someone else. Yeah, it's.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: It's the people who are prepared, the people who have done the research, the people who are know what they need to do to pull a trigger, move quickly on something that's a great opportunity.
They're the ones that reap the benefits. It's the people who sit there and never make a decision because they don't feel like they have all the information. The reality is you never have all the information you have. You get as much as you can. You research, you talk to experts and you are able to act quickly and that's when you get the best deals.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah. There's one particular owner in our portfolio that I have in mind right now, and he and his wife, they're in the military. They, they've done really well with being strategic with all of their finances and their housing, and they chose to rent one of their properties. Last year. We walked through all the numbers. They were actually out of pocket. They're still a little bit out of pocket, but with the new renewal coming up, they're not going to be out of pocket anymore.
They have appreciated a significant amount around all the numbers from as far as that goes. And they put themselves in a really good boat where I think most people wouldn't have. They would have wanted to cash out and move on. They wouldn't have wanted to move to a different state and have to come up with that money every month to keep it.
And his attitude was, look like, I, I don't really understand how all this is going to happen, but I know we can do it and I know it's going to pay off later. And he's absolutely right. In less than a year, it's already put them in a much better position.
And that's not, they're not necessarily like investors looking to. They're just making good decisions with the information provided.
[00:17:01] Speaker B: And those are fun clients to work because even, even on the superficial, like a superficial look, they could be putting in a few bucks every month to keep it flow, but at the same time, you still get the depreciation and tax benefits. You have a tenant paying for your mortgage, pay for the majority of your interest, making the majority of everything.
So net. Net is actually positive.
[00:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:23] Speaker B: And that's what a lot of people don't look at. They just See what's, what's happening now and that's as far as it goes. But this is the client. No net net. It's going to be. It's going to be very positive and over long term it's going to generate a lot of wealth for him and his family.
[00:17:37] Speaker A: Yeah. No paralysis. He did analysis action. That was what he did. And it's worked out. And then same thing with the investor I was talking about that they're going all liquid now. They were both teachers and he just kind of slowly started building this hard money portfolio with a lot. He's like, everyone that I work with is a friend. They all trust me. And you make really great conservative decisions with everything we're doing. And now he's in a completely different, honestly, tax bracket and lifestyle and everything like that because he was analysis action too. He didn't pause. He. He did it.
[00:18:06] Speaker B: But also understand that it can be scary. And then there's also the people that have no analysis. They just move and then they're in trouble.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: I know I don't get in trouble, but I don't.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: I want to say you do that either. You think about things.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: No. Maybe Byron's thinking, maybe you're the. I don't know who's thinking of things.
I don't know. I do think there is benefit though in just kind of doing the thing. Like just do it.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Also like evaluating what the potential risk is if you're, you know, losing a few weeks of time or, you know, a few hundred bucks is very different than, you know, years and millions.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:40] Speaker B: There's one more risk reward.
[00:18:42] Speaker A: Risk reward. Yeah. There is one more topic that I was most excited about. I wasn't in the beginning when we kind of walked through the talking points, but the more I caught about it, I am and it's. Your network is worth more than Zillow.
That means so many things. When you really zoom out and see what that means, what does that mean to you?
[00:18:58] Speaker B: It's all network.
They're just saying, like not just saying how long. You could say that.
And no, it's a once. Once a property hits Zillow, it's probably not that great.
The majority of the great investments are taken off way before they.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: Those are big words in this current week too right now.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: But I'm talking more so investment.
[00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
When the commercial world especially.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yeah. That's. It's not.
Not really for owner occupied.
Regardless of what's going on. I think Zillow, we're going to market. Being on public markets is the best way to maximize your return, your sales price, the value of the sale for any residential home.
But for commercial properties, more often than not, they never hit the market. Once that listing agreement signed, they. That broker's going out to their network and saying, look at this awesome property. He wants to buy it off market.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: Agreed. So in that sense, your network is better than Zillow. Get into a network, get an expert that is in a network that can help you bring value to the table or even to.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: Once the property. Even if the property's on market. How many times have you.
Maybe we don't want to admit this, but you have multiple offers coming in and you see that name, you're like, that person is a nightmare. Oh, I would rather work with someone else. And then when you're talking to your clients like, this is their offer, this is my experience with them. And this person, on the other hand, has been always very easy to work with, very honest, gets deals done, and this will be a smooth and seamless transaction for you.
[00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that. And on the flip side, so say you're an agent, right? And you're looking for the way to build your database, build your business. One of the ways is you can buy leads from companies like Yellow. There's tons of companies out there that sell leads.
And you can spend thousands and thousands of dollars for your zip code for those leads per month. Or you can focus on your network and building your own database and building your own sphere. And that's where your top referrals are actually going to come from. If you're doing it right, you have to know how to do it. But it's all network.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: It's providing value. Being jetty.
Yeah, Being jetty went to the people that you're around that are in your network, being helpful to them and building that network. And even once you do become an investor, once you do have that. So once you do make that purchase, it's also your network who's going to help you maintain it. Who's going to, you know, who's going to be there, give you that awesome price for that, you know, water Piper, that water heater on Christmas Eve when no one else will even answer your phone calls.
[00:21:36] Speaker A: It's so great when, like now that there's finally vendors in my life that do jump in to do those things, it's such a game changer. Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Or when your clients call you and say, hey, this went wrong, do you have someone to help you say, absolutely, let me help you.
[00:21:50] Speaker A: I just had a scenario like this play out, I had a malfunction with a termite hose shooting a solution into the attic. Broke in the people's bedroom shop a solution all over their carpet. Super awesome.
Um, and the company they were going to, we'll get a carpet cleaner out there tomorrow, we'll figure it out. They were slow with it. I called my carpet cleaner, he said, oh, I'll be there in 30 minutes. Went right out there. And that was because of my network, my relationship with him. Um, I don't ever try to capitalize on that. But it's, it was just actually playing out that way. And he was excited to do it and just would not have happened if it wasn't someone with a network like.
[00:22:26] Speaker B: That in that field and providing value. Medium service.
Well, like even so much with us and our clients and our investments.
You call someone off Google, let's say the Average water heater, 40 gallon water heater, gas water heater is what 95% of us have in our homes.
You call someone off Google, they'll be there probably pretty quickly, but they're going to charge you $3,000.
You are one of our clients. And we call, they're going to be there in a few minutes, they're going.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: To charge us $1,100 or anyone with a good network. And I think people don't put enough value on that when they're interviewing, talking to different people that they're going to have represent them.
[00:23:00] Speaker B: It's not short sightedness.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Yeah, short sightedness, yeah.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: The network is everything.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: Network is everything.
Way more valuable than a Zillow.
What are you going to bring up the last topic?
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Well, one of the topics, but I want to take a different approach to part of it.
Like, do you need to have a ton of money? Do you need to be rich?
[00:23:21] Speaker A: This is what I'm excited to talk about.
[00:23:22] Speaker B: Yeah. So I wouldn't, I would say no. Unfortunately you do need money, but also depends on what, how you're starting. Honestly, if I was starting as an investor in 2025, right now, I wouldn't be looking at investing. I'll be looking at building my knowledge, building my network, and really understanding how to succeed in a super tough market. I wouldn't be looking at I need half a million dollars to go buy my first duplex.
[00:23:46] Speaker A: That rich in knowledge.
[00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because you can do that. And unfortunately, unfortunately there's a lot of really wealthy people in Southern California who have no idea what they're doing. And they go and they bid up prices of these assets way beyond what Any sophisticated investor would do to the point where it's unrealistic and no longer profitable, but by the time that they realize that, it's too late.
[00:24:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: So if I was the investor coming in, like having money, you need a little bit of money to do anything.
But I wouldn't be coming in at 2025 looking to buy my first property. I'll be coming in looking to build my knowledge, build my network.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Because of where the market's at.
[00:24:22] Speaker B: Because of where the market's at.
[00:24:23] Speaker A: Yep.
But you don't have to be rich to start. But yeah, you do a little bit of money and then you didn't know what to do with it.
[00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: And then you should do those things.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: Even on the investment side, like if you don't have all of the money we've all seen, especially coming after the crash, like zero down investing and all of those things, that's fake, it's not real anymore. That doesn't work. But if you do have a strong foundation, a strong knowledge base on a strong network, you can't be something, what's called syndication, where you find a deal, you put everything together, you but a portion of the down payment down, you raise outside capital to fill in the rest of that gap and then from there you with the, with your syndication or your investor group then buys the asset and you, you manage it and, and make sure that they get a great return for the money they put in. And that's one way of doing it. When you don't have the money to start out investing in like a Southern California, Orange County, San Diego, LA will work. That requires an auction, that requires the knowledge. But at the end of the day, even if you do have the money, you still need the knowledge or now you're gonna pay for the lack of knowledge.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Do you feel like you educated yourself, your Rookie Self in 2025 enough to become an investor in 2025?
What do you feel like we've talked about enough that you've educated your rookie hypothetical self?
[00:25:41] Speaker B: This is just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, it is.
And maybe that's kind of how I look at life in general. But what we've discussed here, I think is a great starting point for people to know where to look and to see what makes sense for them. Yeah, also too like house hacking. Right, that song for everyone.
[00:26:00] Speaker A: You're a house hacker.
[00:26:01] Speaker B: Yeah, I was in the 20s. I'm not going to be a house hacker in my 30s with a family.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Or for Marnie, maybe you would still be a house hacker. Someone back is going to adopt to that.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: I actually might be honest 100 but.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: I know you would.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: Yeah, but you could go team are.
[00:26:15] Speaker A: You on that one?
[00:26:15] Speaker B: But you could go and buy a 4 Plex, live in one of them, have your tenants in your three other units pay your mortgage or buy like I did, a four bedroom home, have three of your buddies pay your mortgage and you were living for free in your 20s.
[00:26:29] Speaker A: But if we go back further, you were paying someone else's mortgage. That was house hacking.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Before that.
[00:26:35] Speaker A: Before that. Yeah. That's kind of the start of all that.
[00:26:38] Speaker B: Yeah. No, absolutely.
But that's also perspective of like where, where you are in life and what you want out of life. Some people don't want roommates or some people don't want to live next to their tenants.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Yeah, both.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: I'm going to do earbuds.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: Okay. Okay. What would you do as an agent starting in 2025?
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Oh, if I started as an agent in 2025, honestly I feel like I'm starting every day. I feel like I'm always trying to learn, but I would. It's similar to just really building the knowledge because we do have a lot of agents right now that they're a year, two years into the business. They're sighted, they're capable, they're all of the things that you would need to be a successful agent. And the business is just tough right now. It's tough for people with big databases, a lot of experience. It's especially tough for people that didn't have the time to build the past clientele during the years that things were moving, but they're going to start moving again. That's real estate. So we're focusing a lot with our agents right now on the education, on being ready to hit the ground running when things shift.
They are slowly shifting from what I'm seeing as far as activity goes, whether I don't, whether it's comfort level or an actual shift. But we're just working on getting all of the tools in their tool belt so they can, they can act when the time is right.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:27:55] Speaker A: Also on the flip side, when I first started it was you were all in real estate, you were a full time realtor. What I'm seeing now and what I'm fully supportive of is kind of a double, double career choice. So we have agents that are, you know, part time or doing other careers to keep things going and then investing as much time as they can into real estate. And then eventually that shift into full time will be More comfortable. But I think it's completely acceptable for that not to be comfortable for newer agents right now.
[00:28:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. And there's a lot of people say you have to go all in. I don't think that's realistic. But you said a lot there. Could you give us some concrete things that you would do if you were a new agent in 2025?
[00:28:37] Speaker A: I'd be building my database. I'd be learning how to build a database. I would be focusing on what's happening in the market so I can speak to it when things become different. I'd be touring as many houses as possible. Because when you're showing clients and then you're listening, that's how you become really comfortable with the inventory, knowing what's out there, knowing different upgrades, knowing all of that.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Are you to worry about yourself?
[00:28:58] Speaker A: I'm touring by myself or I honestly call like other agent friends and we'll go together.
I find vacant listings. I. I'm doing that now just to be familiar with listing and stuff. And honestly, I haven't been showing property as much as I was in 20. They're just the buyers. It's not the same as it was. And when it was very active, that's. That's how I got to know my neighborhoods. Just I had a buyer in any neighborhood. I was excited because now I'm going to really know that neighborhood and I'll remember it forever. That's not really an option right now.
So, yeah, just touring properties, staying in front of everything.
[00:29:32] Speaker B: Where would you gain that knowledge that you're discussing or that you're referencing?
[00:29:36] Speaker A: What knowledge? Which one?
[00:29:37] Speaker B: The market, interest rates, transactions. Like what?
[00:29:42] Speaker A: Reading, listening to as many agents that are actually acted as possible. There was a point in time where I would go to the office just to learn by listening to conversations that were happening in the office. Yeah, caravans, they used to be a really big deal. They're not as active today as I would like for them to be, but I learned a ton of those caravans.
And then just interacting with people in the industry. Even though I wasn't doing as much activity as I maybe was getting off the perception that I was or wanted to be doing, I was still. I wasn't scared to integrate myself immediately into the industry, to learn as much as possible, because all of that comes into play.
[00:30:18] Speaker B: And I agree with all of that. So how much? Like what, what is. What are the resources needed to be a real estate agent right now to start your career? What, do you need any money? Do you not? And maybe let's give two scenarios. Someone with a full time job looking to get a real estate, good amount of savings.
What does it look like for them versus someone just out of college, very little income, very little savings. How do they make it?
[00:30:44] Speaker A: Honestly, go, go find a part time job if that's your situation. Because some people get lucky, make a lot of money right out of the gate. But that's not always the case.
I used to say you need about $1,000 and a few hours a week to. To get started and going. I want to say now it's. I looked at the numbers, it's what a couple grand. Like you do have to make a small investment into the career to even get started to be able to license to sell. But after that you pick a good brokerage.
I would be picking one that didn't have monthly fees or excessive fees that I had to pay out of pocket. I would be looking at one that collected when I made money if I were working out because that's what would make sense for my income.
And find someone, find a group of people that, that are going to educate you and elevate you and maybe they're more active than you are. Just put yourself in a position to learn and grow.
Because if you would enter the market in 2021, you would have had to hit the ground running with actually serving clients without the knowledge or education. And I was seeing that too. I was working with a lot of agents in 2021. Half of them didn't even know what was going on. And looking back, I get why they got into real estate and then they took their test during COVID Yeah.
Got their license and then everything was going gangbusters and. Yeah. And. And there wasn't even the time to be trained. So if it were 2025, I was a new agent. Knowing what I know now, I would be getting as much experience and education as possible. Knowing that I'm not getting paid for it.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: I have another curveball for you.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: I hate the curve.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: You're 2025, your new agents, you just make you do your first transaction. Your commission checks, $30,000 in your pocket. What are you doing?
[00:32:20] Speaker A: Going dizzy.
What am I doing?
Same thing I do now. Putting it in the bank. Okay. And going on with my life.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: Okay.
What if that was you in 2012, 2013, putting it in the bank, going off your life.
[00:32:40] Speaker A: Going on with my wife and continue to go and.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:43] Speaker A: Saving to buy our first place. And then making sure I didn't have a car payment. But I did invest and still I'm very comfortable investing a lot in my business. Like that's where I look to spend my money.
Yeah, I've actually had to budget that lately because I will spend all my money on investing into my own business.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: And clientele of the best investments is into yourself as an investor. Once you do start making those deals and getting cash flow like save it because expenses do come unexp. Unexpected expenses come and you want more money for your next deals. Being able to increase the value of your asset through vorce appreciation, renovations, remodels, things like that, where you could even potentially take some cash out on a refi and then do your next deal. Great, wonderful. But you need cash to do that.
Don't be spending all of your cash flow.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: No. And it definitely, I will say the more money you make, the more you can invest. Like specifically in marketing. The way I market a property today, I could not have afforded to market that way in my earlier years. I'm not saying that there's not strategic ways to market a property that are successful, but I do have a lot more time and value, I think, in how I'm marketing certain properties.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: I mean, that's a great point. I remember when we first started all of you, I was taking a lot of the photos of videos, doing a lot of the marketing. Now we have professional photographers, professional videographers, marketing teams. Like it's.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: We're able to buy back time now.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But also too, we're able to deliver a much higher product. Yeah. Is somewhat not unfair, but is not doable for people who don't have our resources.
[00:34:23] Speaker A: It's just an advantage with experience and.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:34:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I. I would not be. I would be not hesitant to get into real estate today. Like it definitely you have to make the choice to do it.
But I would go in with the idea that it's going to get better because it's hard.
[00:34:46] Speaker B: Okay. And I guess that's from your position because looking here from my perspective, depending what lens, from a landlord lens, for me, my anticipation is that generally it's going to get worse.
[00:35:00] Speaker A: That's why we're very different.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: Well, depending on how you look at it. Like the landlord tenant laws are getting worse. And that I think is a very common consensus.
Not to say that some of them aren't needed, but I think some of them are a bit overreaching, onerous and ridiculous on the sales side for agents. Absolutely. I would say it's going to get better.
[00:35:23] Speaker A: It's going to get better. And that's And I have watched a few agents, specifically that are at our brokerage, just grind and keep going and have the exact right attitude that I'm just going to put my head down and work and learn and grow and grow. And I am confident for them it's going to get better.
And.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: But one aspect to that is when things get hard and you stick with it and come out the other end, that's when you're going to be so much better than everybody else. It's when it's hard that the Agreed.
[00:35:53] Speaker A: No, no, I agree. I could not agree more.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Yeah, it's hard is that's when the. The grinders rise to the top. They survive.
And it really pushes out a lot of those people who were perhaps making the industry difficult, inefficient, and unnecessarily complicated.
[00:36:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.
I feel good about this. Do you feel like I do?
[00:36:18] Speaker B: So how would you sum up, from your perspective, these points that we discussed?
[00:36:23] Speaker A: Oh, easy. So I wouldn't worry about timing the market. I worry about timing each client's life. If I were an agent, I would not be buying for cash flow right now because that's not really assisting. But be comfortable and confident in the appreciation aspect of anything that I'm purchasing.
I would have analysis and action and not analysis paralysis, because I can name 20 people that should have made the decision to pull the trigger and would be in a much better position today. And didn't we see it all the time.
I would focus on my network and building my sphere and database and not worry about all the online leads and thinking you're missing out there, because I don't really think people are.
I wouldn't worry about being rich to start. I'd be worried about being strategic with my money to continue to build wealth.
And I would be confident and comfortable that it's all belonging.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: It is real estate.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: It does. It's never a bad decision.
Yeah, just not an easy one sometimes.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, I'd agree with a lot of that. No, that's a crystal ball.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: You better agree with all of it.
What?
Yeah, it's what you said.
[00:37:30] Speaker B: No one has a crystal ball.
I think regardless of the situation, you want to find a happy medium between cash flow and appreciation, or at least have a really good backup plan if your primary idea doesn't work out. And I guarantee you, you do this long enough, you will be wrong.
Analysis is great. Don't be paralyzed.
Networks, it's always about the network.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:54] Speaker B: And all the same was like with Zillow, regardless of Zillow or someone else, when they are providing you all of your business, they essentially own your business.
At any point, Zillow or any one of these companies could shut off a spigot, bring all of their leads in house to their own agents and you're done.
[00:38:12] Speaker A: You invested in someone else.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. You don't need to be rich, but you probably need some money, unfortunately.
Or find a creative way of getting a loan and not over leveraging yourself.
[00:38:27] Speaker A: That's a whole different topic.
[00:38:28] Speaker B: Because investing. Yeah, yeah. Investing in you.
And yeah, real estate's a long game, I think.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: I mean, thank you for listening. We're definitely going to have more on all of these topics, probably more in detail. That's helpful. So hopefully you learned something today.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: Yeah. And feel free to reach out to us directly if you have more questions or want more insight on any specific topic or even what we are doing now and how we could help you.
[00:38:53] Speaker A: Bye. That's a wrap on this episode of AllView360 all things real estate. If you found this helpful, don't forget to subscribe. Subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone navigating their own real estate journey. Connect with us anytime on Instagram @AllView360 and on LinkedIn @AllView Real Estate. Until next time, stay curious and keep your perspective. 360.
