Ep 1: The Cost of Unprofessionalism in Real Estate

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to AllView360 all things real Estate Podcast. With your hosts, Daniel Gutierrez and Shannon Dempsey, we explore real estate from every angle, giving you insights, tools, and confidence to make smart decisions that support your future. It's time for a new perspective on Property. Welcome to AllView360. Hello, Shannon, here with Daniel. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Hi, everybody. [00:00:21] Speaker A: I'm very excited because this is our first time recording like this, so it's either going to go really well or not. Are you just as excited? [00:00:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I generally enjoy our office studio with our pre white wine. Would it be appetizer? Yeah, appetizer. I was gonna say pre workout, but yeah. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Well, we can't do that here because then we'd be drinking alone. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Okay. [00:00:44] Speaker A: So that doesn't work. Okay. And I'm excited about the topic today because we are going to be discussing professionalism amongst agents, mainly because of a specific, specific interaction that you had that directly impacted the overall outcome for all the clients, which is. It kind of was, you know, unprofessional on steroids. [00:01:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:05] Speaker A: But since that happened a couple weeks ago, I've noticed. And I don't know if it's the shift of the market or the stress of the market, whatever it might be, but I feel like everyone's having some sort of twinge of being unprofessional. [00:01:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:22] Speaker A: And so I thought it'd be a good to kind of go over all of that, the things that we're seeing. But I want to start with your email experience. [00:01:31] Speaker B: Well, to your point, I was chatting with another broker, Jason, who we both know and, like, a lot love Jason. And he was saying that he's experienced it over the years and he's had his license for, like, 25 years somehow. And he was saying that. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Did he get it when he was 10? What the heck? [00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much. And he was saying that as the market gets more difficult and transactions slow down, agents often get more aggressive, more unprofessional, more difficult to work with because they get more stressed. And it's a direct reflection of their financial position, which is unfortunate. But I think, as we've experienced over the years, probably pretty true, or I. [00:02:06] Speaker A: Think probably a combination, probably largely impacted by the financial situation, but also just the overall pressure, like constantly feeling like you're not delivering on what. What you should be delivering on or what, you know, you can deliver on, and it's just not happening. And if you're an anxious person or, you know, whatever. I don't know what to describe it. You're up at night, stressed, about it? [00:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't think that there's many non anxious people in real estate. Whether they weren't anxious before they got into the industry and became anxious because of the industry or were just naturally anxious and gravitated towards real estate. [00:02:42] Speaker A: I think all of the above. But I. Let's wait. I want to start with your email because that's what triggered all of this and I think about it often and it's shocking to me. I haven't experienced anything like that. I don't think it's a common way. Do you want to kind of tell us what happened or so? [00:02:59] Speaker B: Absolutely. Background story Helping some long term clients who are pretty large investors buy another property. We've helped been helping them buy and sell for five plus years. We manage many rentals for them. Great family, just awesome story, super easy to work with and one of those clients that really puts their, their faith and trust in us to do, to do right for them. So we work really hard to make sure we live up to that trust and that expectation. Found them an awesome town home in Costa Mesa. It would have converted into a great rental. Great cash flow, great long term appreciation. They're all cash buyers so that makes things a lot easier. You know, the market's not wonderful right now. So I had been. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Well for reference, what month did this happen? [00:03:47] Speaker B: Went into escrow and fell out of escrow in the month of May. Okay, so where. [00:03:53] Speaker A: I mean the market's gotten worse since, but it was not good then. [00:03:56] Speaker B: Well, this property had hit the market, I believe early April. It had gone through a pretty significant price drop and I was watching it for a while and it gone through a pretty significant price drop. So we went in, we put an offer in, all cash, quick close, clean, easy. And during the inspection process we found that there was some issues. Nothing crazy, nothing that should have been a deal killer, but a few issues primarily. [00:04:26] Speaker A: I saw that report, it was pretty, yeah like things that you would think would be normal to request but nothing. Yeah, nothing. Super. Super. [00:04:33] Speaker B: So for perspective, the dishwasher wouldn't turn on, H Vac wouldn't turn on and a few little things here and there, you know, things that are. Should be relatively easy to fix. So. And also too the. The community was a smaller hoa, so it wasn' professionally managed. And overall we went into escrow fairly quick close, all cash. Like I was saying, it should have been super simple. We did the inspection, we did the request for repairs on the H Vac and the dishwasher. The other stuff we didn't even bother. And, you know, sure enough, we send it out. The agent is being very, very dodgy in regards to committing to the work being done. Comes back and says, hey, the H Vac is new. It's under warranty. The vendor is already fixing it, but the parts are not available. So you're gonna have to wait a few months for them to be delivered and repaired. But it shouldn't be an issue. I'm like, okay, like, not great, but fine. Send me the contact information. Reasonable warranty for the. For the H Vac. Let me just verify and then verify that the dishwasher is being repaired, replaced. And he's like, okay, great. So he sends me the. The quote or the. The receipt for the H Vac repair. And it was written on something you would see, like, from a Home Depot, like a generic Home Depot triplicate receipt. Like, nothing like a carbon copy. Carbon copy? Yeah. Nothing. That gave me a bunch of confidence. [00:06:06] Speaker A: Where. What? Home Depot is giving you carbon copies? [00:06:09] Speaker B: You can buy the carbon copy receipts at Home Depot. [00:06:11] Speaker A: Oh, you mean buy the pad. I thought you meant you're shopping at Home Depot. [00:06:14] Speaker B: The paddle. [00:06:15] Speaker A: I thought you had a special Home Depot. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Okay, I do. So look up the company on Google. I can't find them. I can't find them on Google. They don't have a Yelp page. They'll have a Google page. I was able to find them through, like, those random, like, business listings. So I'm like, okay, that's weird. And it was a nighttime when I was doing this. So I called the next morning. No answer. Call that afternoon and get an answer from a guy who sounds like he just got out of bed and introduced myself, told him who I was, what I was inquiring about, and he goes, I don't know why you're calling me. I never told you it'd be fixed. This is a waste of my time. I'm like, okay, well, you know, I'm just doing my due diligence for my clients. Could you, like, tell me more, give me more information? And just kind of hung up on me. I'm like, okay, not. Not great. So, spoke with the seller's agent, and the seller's agent was like, hardcore defensive. And then the. The. The story changed from this is being done to this will be done once you close. Same thing with the dishwasher. So I asked him, I'm like, look, like we need to ensure that this is going to be done if the whole H Vac is broken. Like, that's a big issue dishwasher. Not as much. But you said it was going to be done, so show me that you're doing what you said you would do. And then he was wanting it to. [00:07:36] Speaker A: Be done after contingency removal or after close of escrow. [00:07:41] Speaker B: So the H Vac wasn't going to be done at all. I just needed proof that there was a warranty and this. There was a reputable company that was going to do the work. And you're generally fine with that. But. And I guess that's fairly standard. Right? That's not a big deal. But you very much work off of the faith and trust that you have with the other agent, that they're going to do the right thing. Right. And that's all. Yeah, and that's all we have. So I have to do what's best for my client. So I'm doing that research, and then sure enough, I get a notice to perform. And I. 1. We didn't even have escrow docs yet. We didn't have HOA docs yet. And I get a notice to perform. And I respond right away. I'm like, hey, man, this is a bit aggressive. We don't have HOA docs. And I think we just got in escrow docs. And I'm like, and you've provided no proof that you're getting into this. Done. You first said it was already being done. Then you changed your story and said it's going to be done once you remove all contingencies. I'm like, you know, it doesn't give me a bunch of confidence and it's noticed. [00:08:40] Speaker A: To perform for what? What? Contingency removal. [00:08:43] Speaker B: To remove contingencies? Yeah, all of them. All of them. It was all cash. So the only contingency we had was inspection. [00:08:48] Speaker A: Okay. [00:08:50] Speaker B: So sure enough sends me the notice perform. I. I call them out. I'm like, look, we don't have this, we don't have that. You've changed the story on this. And then I also mentioned the fact that the H Vac vendor we spoke to was. Did not. Just did not sue confidence. Right. It was questionable. [00:09:11] Speaker A: And then you did say something to be fully transparent. What did you call the receipt? [00:09:17] Speaker B: Something that my gardener would give me. [00:09:19] Speaker A: Or tissue paper or something? [00:09:21] Speaker B: No, I think my gardener gives me. And honestly, like, that's what my gardener gives me. [00:09:25] Speaker A: This is where the. [00:09:25] Speaker B: Okay, he gives me the carbon copy receipts from Home Depot. [00:09:28] Speaker A: So this was like a little bit. [00:09:29] Speaker B: Of a poke, but also too, like, very professional. I'm like, hey, we're working on this. We're working together to get this done. My client's very eager to buy the home, really likes it like let's work together. [00:09:41] Speaker A: We're not trying to cancel a deal here. Yeah, we're trying to. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Just doesn't make sense to push on this, do a notice perform for these things that you clearly haven't fulfilled your duty and obligations on and we don't have all the documents yet. And I told him like look, if you you insist on this, you're going to find yourself back on market because at the end of the day I need to do right by my clients. I'm not going to tell them to buy a home that we just need to go or that we'll then need to go and replace an H Vac unit on right. [00:10:06] Speaker A: And I'm going to tell them all of this. [00:10:08] Speaker B: Yeah, dishwash, not a big deal. But in H Vac, you know, you're 10 grand depending on the unit. So then he sends me a super, super harsh response like so much so that I started laughing. It was so like beyond ridiculous and goes real hardcore on me to the tune like I have it here in front of me but starts braiding my experience saying that I don't know what I'm doing that well, let's see. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Can you just read it? Because it's the gist is tone and. [00:10:46] Speaker B: I'm going to read it as is so it doesn't all flow right. But condescending tone nor attempting to patronize me will only worsen the remainder of escrow for you and everyone here. So stop now. I'm being light right now. I'm not the one you alleged me serving notice perform was aggressive. You haven't seen aggressive. I will get you verification of the dishwasher. Let me know how we can hold your hand on the furnace once you call the number of your of the gardener esque invoice. Shall we delay close for an unknown period of time until you feel satisfied knowing that a backordered part has arrived? Maybe your client is so concerned that they don't proceed over a furnace to heat a home in Costa Mesa an 85 degree plus weather. I know this is a massive deal for them and we can certainly and we don't. We certainly don't want them to get frostbite. The HOA isn't a corporate run company. I imagine you have a phone like Tyler and do your due diligence. This is the kind of thing that we are not responsible for other than to provide you what we've given you. You will have more documents tomorrow coming from me personally as I hunted them down today, I imagine you will need a lifetime to review them too. So know that. Feel free to do so. We want you guys to feel comfortable as possible because without hot air and a dishwasher in Costa Mesa, homeownership would be overrated. Look man, we're all rookies here. You are doing a great job and I really and I will really try to pay more attention to how deals should be done. It's been a masterclass so far. My response is I think you have an anger problem. And while this approach may work with others, it won't work with me. I'm going to do what I need to do for my clients. If that doesn't work for you, you may just find yourself back on market, save us both a headache and don't bother responding to this email. [00:12:43] Speaker A: So so far we're like heated but not. [00:12:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:47] Speaker B: And then his response is find me back on market. But you won't. You'll be a good boy and collect your check that I made happen for you. Another self entitled UCLA kid masquerading as a realtor with less than 30 transactions. Magnificent. Adorable. I'm not angry. I just don't like posers, especially self important ones. Not going to waste my time. Deflate your chest. Do your job. I'll see you with the contingency removal soon. Kissy face. [00:13:12] Speaker A: The kissy face kills me. [00:13:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Thereafter it's oh, I spoke my clients told them the potential risks being, hey, this is a good deal for you, but there's risks because we ultimately can't trust this agent. We can't confirm that the work was done. I spoke with the H vac vendor and I'm not exactly confident who they are, what they're doing. And I told them all the information, went over the. All the communications and they decided to back out because they weren't comfortable with the terms of the deal or the the credibility of the work being done. So I said hi, thanks for the, the colorful commentary. I'll do the personal attacks and name calling to you as that seems more your brand. I respect. I represent my clients with professionalism and integrity regardless of how others choose to conduct themselves. Documentation, meeting contractual obligations and advocating for my buyers. Offensive to you then perhaps we have different definitions of doing our jobs. My client decided to cancel escrow. Please send over the signed cancellation so we can move forward with leasing deposits per the terms of this agreement. Wishing you the best of luck. [00:14:23] Speaker A: Nice. [00:14:23] Speaker B: And then response is laugh out loud. No problem. Next response thereafter will you provide be providing context for the sellers? Usually professional. Usually professionalism includes that. I'm certain it's not over. Not over a heater nor agent bickering. Sounds like cold feet. You don't have to, but it's common courtesy between buyers and sellers. I said for context. You should send your clients these emails. And then the response is haha. What a weak response. Did someone hurt your feelings? Maybe you need a safe place. It's okay, let's talk it up. Let's chalk it up to incompetence and further proof you are a proser and can't close. Sugar coat. Whatever you wish. My clients love me, know everything that's going on. You are a coward who lost control of a deal with their buyers, who got cold feet. Nothing more. Happens all the time. Not all of us could be proper leaders. Moving on. I got lots to close, unlike some other agents on this thread. Yeah, the whole thing was great. [00:15:31] Speaker A: Like okay, impressive. [00:15:34] Speaker B: And then fast forward to was it last week and now we're in escrow on a much better deal that's going to produce much better cash flow and be a much better situation with actually some awesome agents that have been awesome to work with and it's been great so far. [00:15:49] Speaker A: Is he still on the market with that one? [00:15:50] Speaker B: He's still on the market. [00:15:52] Speaker A: They're back on the market. Not in escrow. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:54] Speaker A: Okay. So love the whole exchange like belongs on a TV show or something. Which might be the world he's living in or thinks he. I don't know. Yeah, couple questions. One, it obviously felt good to have the deal canceled because of how he was behaving. However, that was not your guidance as to a reason to cancel the escrow like he accused you of. It was the integrity, reliability on going basically off someone's word on a huge repair after the fact. That person's word. [00:16:29] Speaker B: That's not what this industry is. I mean we're fiduciaries, we have a license, we have, you know, code of ethics. But at the end of the day, if someone's unethical, you can't rely on them to do anything. And not only that, but my also my other concern was is if this is how he's doing business, what about if something was missed? What about if there was an issue with a transaction with escrow? We can't rely on someone like that to do the right thing now or in the future. And things do happen. It's not common, but things do happen. And generally you work with the agent to make things right. This person isn't someone that we could trust or rely on to do the right thing now or ever. [00:17:08] Speaker A: Ever. And what. So I had all sorts of emotions about this. A, the first one was to laugh because it was crazy. But then I thought, so I know you, you're not, you are not the one. Right. So if it's he's coming at you hard, you handled it well, that's fine. I think you're the exception in that category. I would not have handled that well. I would have let it rattle me. It would have, you know, caused a lot of mental. It just would have worn me out. I know a ton of agents that would not have known what to do. I would have just been emotionally bothered by it. He probably bullies other people, other agents, maybe newer agents into doing what he thinks should be done with that behavior if they're scared to stand up to it or don't want to engage or whatever it might be. And the fact that that standard or that is happening out there in our industry kills me. [00:17:59] Speaker B: Well, that's a conversation you and I had. It's how do we address this for our industry, for the people we know? Because for me, yeah, it didn't faze me at all. Like I was more jaw dropp dropping that someone acts like that in our society, in our profession. Not, I mean, not too surprising. I know there's people like that, but to actually encounter them was jaw dropping for me. And like I, I, I handled it well. I could care less. Like, this is a long term client. We're a cash buyer in a pretty terrible market. Like we have all the ability to go somewhere else as we did, but for him to treat others like that, like so much. So where the escrow officer, not even an escrow officer I've ever worked with or know called me, apologize for him. [00:18:44] Speaker A: So it was his escrow officer. [00:18:45] Speaker B: His escrow officer, yeah. Baffling. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't even hear about it from you directly. I mean, I did after the fact, but I've had some crazy agents, which is why we've been having this conversation. Or not crazy agents, but just high emotion, high, very reactive situations. And we have the same tc. So she sees my idea and she's, you know, like, whoa, another, you know, another wild situation and stuff. And then she just texts me out of nowhere. Oh my God. Ask Daniel. He's topped the cake with an agent on the other side. And so then that was kind of how I first heard about it. But when other people who normally just Kind of keep things, you know. [00:19:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Keep things quiet or shocked also too. [00:19:25] Speaker B: Like he, he spent enough time to do research on me and how many transactions I've done, where I went to school, everything. So kind of also flattered. [00:19:33] Speaker A: Flattered. And the fact that he mentioned in the last email, like my clients know me, they love me, they know everything that's going on makes me think that that's probably not the case. I don't, there's. To me it's like, are there maybe there are people out there, sellers out there, that appreciate that sort of tactic? God, it's working out for them while they're still on the market. [00:19:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:53] Speaker A: But I would guess that they didn't know. [00:19:55] Speaker B: I mean, they didn't know and unfortunately that's like what gives. Some people are in our industry or gives our industry kind of a bad name at times because he totally didn't do right by his sellers. And now they're still a market where they could have closed a month ago and you know, super easy and simple transaction. [00:20:13] Speaker A: So this leads to the question of what's unprofessional in the market right now and know who you're hiring and how do they do that. So. [00:20:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, also too for the agents who are listening, how to act ethically. People will find out. It will impact you. And also too like I'll never write an offer on anything that guy is ever representing again. But I've also spoken with other agents in the industry who have worked with him and they say he's got kind of like this all the time. And he's. He mentioned some things that I think were questionable to me at the beginning, like questionable fair housing comments that I just kind of didn't pay much attention to. But yeah, now it all makes sense. This guy shouldn't be in our industry. He shouldn't be a broker. You shouldn't be doing transactions. And his clients probably have no idea the disservice he's doing them after it. [00:21:02] Speaker A: All kind of played out. Is there anything you would have done differently if you could go back with all of the interaction? [00:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I've thought about it. You can't send a notice perform when we don't even have all the documents yet. I don't know if I would have done anything differently at the end of the day. And I, I unfortunately, like, this is going back to a different topic. I've done deals and transactions with people who ended up being very unethical and, and it causes a lot more pain and damage. You're trying to get the deal done for the sake of getting the deal done. But at the end of the day, it wasn't worth it. I mean, you know, one that we won't go into yet, but a transaction I did in November of 23 that I'm still dealing with because the people on the other side were unethical, lied and committed fraud. And we're still going through it all. [00:21:56] Speaker A: That wasn't residential resale. That was a big one. [00:21:58] Speaker B: No, that was different. We won't go into the details yet, but yeah, not. Not great. [00:22:04] Speaker A: No, it's. Yeah. And it all comes down. I mean, it matters. The kind of person that you hire, the kind of personality, the traits that they exhibit in all aspects of the life ultimately come through in the decisions they make throughout the transaction. [00:22:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:15] Speaker B: And going back to your friend. No, going back to my previous career in healthcare. You know the joke. What do you call a doctor who finished last or what do you call a med student who finished class in their class? [00:22:30] Speaker A: A doctor? [00:22:30] Speaker B: Well, hey, let me go back. There's a lot of, A lot of stuttering. A joke that is in my previous industry, healthcare, what do you call a med student finished last in their class? Doctor. Right. Yeah. So that's still the person treating you. And I knew, unfortunately, some, some physicians who I wouldn't trust treating me or anyone I knew. And ultimately it's kind of the same thing within real estate. They got a real estate license, which is not deficient, difficult to get. And now they practice real estate and could very much do disservices and damage to our industry or clients and, you know, our general society. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Yeah, the bar is low. [00:23:10] Speaker B: It is. [00:23:11] Speaker A: I think more often than not it's a good interaction with the agent on the other side. And I can usually tell during the initial offer phase, one, one side or the other, if it's going to be someone that's going to, to be enjoyable to work with. Know their stuff. What I've run into a couple times now and it. They threw me because I could tell they'd been in the industry for a long time. They knew what they were doing. They had, you know, all the right team in place. It was wonderful. But two separate agents, two separate situations. I ran into very reactive tantrums, you know, without being too mean. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker A: One of them so bad that I said, hey, let's hang up, let's chat tomorrow, take a breath. And she ended up calling the next day, happy that that was kind of how I guided that conversation. But when I looked back to Understand what was happening. One was regarding an EV charger and one was regarding solar. So those are new, relatively new to the industry. Items to address during a transaction. Right. Solar hasn't been around forever. It's evolved in its time here. So the way that we handle solar is ever changing and something that you need experience in. And then the EV chargers, those were just added not too long ago. And a whole other thing that you have to negotiate and make sure works for all parties. Both of these agents had been in the industry for a very long time, 30 years. Both told me they have done a lot of transactions. They, you know, they knew it. And as soon as they hit something where they, I'm assuming, didn't continue training. [00:24:48] Speaker B: Or their education, their growth, their education. [00:24:51] Speaker A: Yeah, they, it, they spiraled and it went crazy. And so I do think that part of being professional is staying up with all of that too, because if you cannot speak to properly guide through the current market, then it's a disservice to your client as well. So one of those ended up costing the cost of an EV charger, you know, for the transaction. And. But neither like crazy, crazy expensive mistakes, but something that their client wouldn't have known or maybe didn't even realize because I don't know what they heard on the other end. The level of. [00:25:27] Speaker B: Do you think that those two items made those conversations more electrifying? [00:25:30] Speaker A: Stupid? Possibly. I think, yeah. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Just random question, but you made the joke. Like the 30 years in the industry. Some of those agents, I think are the most difficult to work with because they're so set in their ways. They've never changed, they never adapted, they never grown. Like so much so where like some of them say things like, oh my God, that's, that's not true, that's not, not right. Like, not only that, some of the times what they say is like completely legal. They're, they're so set in their ways. They, I think do a disservice to their clients. Where 30 years of experience should show you how to do business, how to grow, how to be, how to evolve with the industry, with the times, with, with everything. And unfortunately, some people rest on their laurels. Dig, dig in and don't, don't adapt to the times. And it's unfortunate and also too unfortunate for their clients because they're doing a district with the service without them ever knowing. [00:26:29] Speaker A: Yeah. And that, the never knowing part, is it the amount of times I wish I could call the client, Are you aware of what's happening or who you're paying tens of thousands of dollars to. [00:26:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:39] Speaker A: To ultimately net you less or cause you problems or put you at risk for a lawsuit later on down the road. They just. People don't have any idea. [00:26:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:49] Speaker A: And it's scary, but. Okay. And then the other thing. Do you remember this week that has happened twice? And so I've gone down. It has never happened to me. And then it happened twice in this last couple weeks with final walkthroughs. [00:27:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:27:03] Speaker A: And then you and I had differing stances on it. [00:27:07] Speaker B: Well, I also want to. I do want to mention that I very much appreciate the difficulty of this job when you're in between a difficult client, a difficult transaction, and then trying to be the intermediary with multiple parties involved. Like, it can get very difficult. But it is our job as the real estate professionals, the agents, the brokers, whatever it might be, to diffuse the situation, bring in logic into an emotional transaction, and. And try to just get things done in the most professional and effective manner. So I. I very much appreciate that. So do you. But we have to remember that we have to stay professional. We have to do what's best for the client, what's best for the transaction, and also do the right thing. [00:27:57] Speaker A: Do the right thing. And. Yeah, and definitely, I think it's hard to manage clients right now. So the. The one scenario, the final walkthrough, that was two clients that were doing the final walk or two agents that were doing the final walkthrough with their buyers, scheduled them, and then both were upset in some capacity that the house was not completely vacant at the time of the final walkthrough. Both times, one was four days and one was three days prior to the close of escrow. Both times, sellers were moving into a lease scenario and moving out all of the final items the night before or morning of the close of escrow. And both confidently said that it is required that the property be vacant at the time of the final walkthrough, which was the first time I'd ever heard that implied. And then when I heard it the second time, or the. The. The first time, it was the first time I heard it, but when I heard it the second time, so shortly after that, I did a deep dive. Cause I didn't know. [00:28:52] Speaker B: I'm like, are you wrong? [00:28:54] Speaker A: How did I miss this? Yeah, am I wrong? If it's happened twice, what am I doing wrong? I thought back to all my final walkthroughs with both buyers and sellers. Oftentimes the sellers are still there with all of Their stuff, showing the buyer around. It's not, you know, it's ideal if the property's fully cleared out, but it's not a requirement. And that's. I've had agents request this stuff be fully cleared out. So I call the stager ahead of time. You know, I've removed it myself. I get that. And very kind. My clients really want to see it without anything on the walls, blah, blah, blah. And if that's a preference and that's fine. But I've never been strong armed or have people be upset that that expectation wasn't met. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Well, my logical brain immediately goes to, well, if that's a requirement, when is the final walkthrough required to happen? [00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah, so I think this is something that I'm going to now implement on both sides. Because your response was like, yeah, that's kind. That's the expectation that you're walking through the property with nothing in it. [00:29:46] Speaker B: And then I, when it happens is the question. [00:29:49] Speaker A: Yeah, when it happens. So I, if you chat GPT or Google it, it says yes, the expectation is that the property is cleared by the final walkthrough. So I'm like, oh shit. So then I went to the actual contract. It's not, yeah, it's not a requirement, early move out or anything like that. So then how do we address it? Right. It's mismanaged expectations on two different sides. And we all know that final few days is what it's like always like an airplane taking off, it's rocky, then it's smooth. And then those final few days, sometimes it's crashing. And in this case, my general philosophy. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Is I want to do the final inspection within 24 hours of closing. I want to know as close to closing as possible the condition at home. Not do it a week before, four days before, three days before. Because of those three days, a lot of things could happen. A pipe could burst, you know, can be broken into, be vandalized. I want to get it as close to closing as possible so that. Four to, four to three days. I don't think that's reasonable at all. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Agreed. If you're doing the final walkthrough on a Tuesday and we close on Friday. Yes. The sellers still own the home for several days. Their stuff is still in there. They have not moved out. So now what I've. And I kind of chalk this up to the shift in the, from the seller's market to the buyer's market. Buyers kind of were running the show, you know, as much as, as much as they were able to. But it got to a point where, no, you're not telling. They're not moving out. So you can feel comfortable for four days of them paying, you know, whatever it might be. So I had to readjust my templates and everything that I use to communicate. Right. So the new plan, since it is an expectation but not contractual requirement, is sellers, if you are. If your buyers are doing their final walkthrough, try to have as much off the walls, everything is visible, as much as possible. You're moving, we understand it. And buyers, if you want everything out, we're going to time that properly and communicate to the listing side, when can we. When will it be vacant? If that means it's two hours before, before the close, then that's when it's going to be, and then that's when you have to do your final walkthrough. [00:31:51] Speaker B: Another point that you brought up and you asked me is what do we do on seller leasebacks? And, you know, fortunately and unfortunately for us, we. We have a large management portfolio, so work with a lot of vestors across Southern California. And we do do purchases where we do a seller leaseback. And more often than not, those are disasters because the sellers are selling the home, they're renting it back from the buyers. [00:32:13] Speaker A: They. [00:32:14] Speaker B: There's an inspection done, but they're fully living there. And then they move out and there's holes all over the walls. There's all of the damages that were hidden by all of the furniture and all their belongings. And now the sellers are like, well, this is what you bought. The buyer's like, I didn't see any of this. And it's generally a mess. [00:32:33] Speaker A: A mess. [00:32:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And not fun. And as we kind of shift into this, I think it. It got out of hand with what buyers had to put up with to purchase a property. I will say that I was one of them. Right. Like, in that crazy time, it's what you had to agree to. To even get your foot in the door. And then what you had to accept during the transaction and condition of the property was unfair, if I'm being honest. But that has shifted the pendulum. It's what. [00:33:02] Speaker B: The pendulum has swung. [00:33:03] Speaker A: The pendulum has swung. And so now we're. I think we're gonna start kind of seeing different things pop up in a buyer's market. We haven't really had a buyer's market in like a decade. Like over a decade. Yeah. So I'm like, It's just. I'm prepared for what different odd things are going to pop up, but I have no idea what they're going to actually be. And we'll see how it goes. [00:33:28] Speaker B: I think it's also going to be a shift in the mindset of the seller because for the sellers for so long, and especially those who don't keep up on the real estate market still think that they have all the power, they're going to be able to list super high and, and get whatever they ask for. And that's just not reality. So it will take some time for the market to catch up to the reality of the situation. [00:33:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:52] Speaker B: And also to. The situation is changing so frequently that it may not happen for quite a while. [00:33:57] Speaker A: I know. And I. Yeah. And I guess the whole point of this entire topic is for agents to be prepared for that sort of thing and to be. I am a reactive person by nature. And in both of those scenarios I was able to stay calm. Cause I work really hard at that. Right. But that would be. I, I'm nervous for myself with what's going to be popping up because it's, it's going to be new situations. And so if you're typically reactive, maybe write a little, post it or something. Remind yourself like, it's just a shifting market and there's going to be unprofessional responses to things and weird tactics and people trying to cut corners and break rules and stay calm. [00:34:39] Speaker B: If you're having a heated email conversation, when in doubt, run it through chat GPT and ask it to make it nice for you. [00:34:45] Speaker A: I know that guy definitely didn't. What if he said make this meaner? That could have been his intention. [00:34:51] Speaker B: That would actually be. [00:34:51] Speaker A: And what if he said write insults for Daniel Gutierrez and then they. That's how they pulled all your information. I'm gonna angry email you after this, see what happens. Yeah, I feel like we're running on time, like short on time, but I have a million more things. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Well, I mean, we could talk about this forever and just know, like this industry is about reputation. Eventually people will find out they're going to start refusing to do deals with you. And guess what? Like, if you can't sell properties, if you can't. If you can't get properties under contract because people are refusing to work with you, you're dead in the water. [00:35:26] Speaker A: You're dead in the water. Yeah, word does get around. I can name three. I know Jason mentioned this too. Like, I have a list. I have three agents on it specifically. Either I've had experiences with them or someone that I know and trust has had an experience with them that has blown me out of the water. And they are on my list and they will stay on my list. I will share it with other people in the area if they. Have you ever worked with this person? Because people do that as well. They'll call around you eventually will come across a moment where it's gonna screw you over, screw your client over, probably. [00:35:59] Speaker B: Gonna do it to the wrong person and you're gonna find yourself in a very costly lawsuit. [00:36:03] Speaker A: Did that agent technically, contractually do anything wrong with, like would his. If his sellers did? Well, he says they know and love him, so clearly they are wonderful as well. But let's say they don't know and they came across it and they were able to prove that their deal fell through and now their house is on the market, potentially selling it for less. All because of the lack of integrity of their listing agent. Is that an actual, I mean, if. [00:36:32] Speaker B: They could prove damages. Yeah, I think would be a difficult one, but I think one that could have some teeth to it because there's very likely going to be damages. They're still on market. No one's buying anything. They're just the holding costs of this home being vacant. It's not good for anybody. [00:36:50] Speaker A: Unprofessional to a max. [00:36:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:53] Speaker B: So another topic I wanted to talk about, Shannon, is the difficulty of maintaining ethics and ethical behaviors in practice while working with a difficult client. I've had that over the years where the clients like, don't worry about this, don't say this, don't do that, not a big deal type, like put it under the rug. Not people I like working with, not people I want to work with. And I think fortunately enough now, not people I will work with. But for agents, sometimes they don't have the luxury of being able to say no. And you know, how do you go about maintaining your ethics, your, your values while working with clients like that when. [00:37:34] Speaker A: The client on the other side's unethical. So someone with or no, even the. [00:37:37] Speaker B: Client on your side. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Oh, I have come across because right now, right, you have to be very out of the box with your marketing. And we're doing all sorts of things to market our clients properties and all of that in this, this wonderful slow, slow, slow paced market. So I have had suggestions come through from clients of have you thought about this to market the home, are you doing this and they're not their fair housing violations or you know, whatever it might be. And I've had to push back and explain, you know, I, I see where you're coming from. This is why this can't happen within the industry or here. You know, I say it in a much nicer way. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:18] Speaker A: But that's the closest I think I've had to unethical requests from a buyer, because they're not unethical people. They just don't know the rules. [00:38:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:27] Speaker A: Have you had anyone demand that you do something that. [00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we've had the people who, in a roundabout way, whether they just straight up ask us to break fair housing laws or in a roundabout way, try to get us to break fair housing laws. And, you know, straight up, especially. Especially now in my practice and my career, and it's like, if this is what you mean. No, if this is what you're expecting. No, this is what we do. We follow the rules, we follow the laws. This is what we're going to do if this doesn't align. We understand and we wish you the best of luck. [00:38:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And I have a feeling that we're going to come across a lot of different marketing techniques from people probably not even realizing that they're breaking all sorts of rules. [00:39:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:11] Speaker A: But learn as you go is an. [00:39:13] Speaker B: Approach for clients, buyers and sellers. They have to know that if their agent breaks the law, they're going to be just as liable for what their agent does as if they were to do it themselves. [00:39:24] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:27] Speaker A: So what are your key takeaways? [00:39:29] Speaker B: Oh, be ethical. Do the right thing. Know who you're working with. [00:39:32] Speaker A: What top three questions would you, as a seller, ask the agent to identify quickly their experience level, integrity level. [00:39:42] Speaker B: That's difficult, I think, for experience and integrity. I mean, you can look at their experience, you can see the transactions they've done. But most importantly, beyond the experience, they have to align with you. How are they going to. How are they going to sell for you? How are they going to work for you? How are they going to deliver on their promises? One of the questions we ask a lot now is just tell us your core values. What's important to you and why do you do this? I think that tells a lot of. [00:40:09] Speaker A: Yeah, like that. I think I would straight up ask, just knowing what I know now, if I were interviewing an agent, if I were interviewing an agent, knowing what I know now, I would straight up ask, like, what is your reputation within the industry? How do you approach other agents? Do you come from a collaborative standpoint or are you immediately competing? And for me, the answer I would be looking for would be a collaborative approach to everything with other agents. Maybe other people would like the opposing view. But I would be asking that. I would also, if they had been in the industry a long time, I would ask, how recently have you done transactions? Just because I know I would clarify. I know things change. So have you stayed up to date with everything? I'm so excited about your level of experience. I just want to make sure that nothing new is going to pop your way that's going to throw you off. [00:40:56] Speaker B: Or the difficult thing there is is people are generally going to tell you what they think you they want or what they think you want to hear. They're not going to tell you, no, I'm not collabor. I'm going to do whatever I need to. I'll kill for you. Like, that could be cool. Not, I think they're going to tell you what they think you want to hear. And I don't know if you're going to get the right answer. And also, too, to your, to our point earlier, just because they're doing transactions doesn't mean they know what they're doing. [00:41:20] Speaker A: True. Okay. Well, to build on that, if I, if I told someone, if they asked me, have you stayed up to date on the current changes in the market and all this and that? Right. [00:41:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:31] Speaker A: And I'm going to say yes. And I don't feel truly that I have. I'm gonna go figure. Like, it's a level of accountability that you're setting from the beginning. [00:41:39] Speaker B: And not everyone has that. So one of the things I ask is how do you stay up to. Up to date on current trends and laws and tell me about it and I want to hear about it. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Ooh, that's good. [00:41:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:51] Speaker A: And if they do, they'll have an answer. [00:41:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Cool. Okay. [00:41:55] Speaker A: Okay. I think we can do a million, million episodes on unprofessional agents in this workplace, but I think we've covered a lot for now. [00:42:04] Speaker B: Well, thanks for listening, everybody. Click to subscribe. We want to be famous. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Let us know if you like this setup because we're unsure we're going to be doing both. [00:42:14] Speaker B: Shannon's in our beautiful San Diego office. I'm in our beautiful Newport beach office. Her view is better than mine, but we'll be doing both setups. This is a little bit easier, a little bit more sustainable, but the in person, I think, is just a great experience, a lot of fun doing, doing it, and we're able to really bring some magic when we do that. [00:42:34] Speaker A: Okay. I promise we won't not do that approach. I know it's your favorite. Okay. We'll see you next time. [00:42:40] Speaker B: Thanks everybody. [00:42:41] Speaker A: That's a wrap on this episode of AllView360, all things real estate. If you found this helpful, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with someone navigating their own real estate journey. Connect with us anytime on Instagram @AllView360 and on LinkedIn @AllView Real Estate. Until next time, stay curious and keep your perspective. 360.